viktorfrankl ([info]viktorfrankl) wrote,
@ 2008-04-12 04:54:00
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Entry tags:race

SWPL backlash
So, I posted a link to that blog - “Stuff White People Like.” It’s a comedy blog that pokes fun at white culture with articles about things that white people love, like expensive coffee, traveling in Europe, etc. I think that most people who read my blog would understand why I would post it. I think it’s funny, silly, and it does have some importance, but it’s not necessarily going to have any real effect on actual race relations. It’s just fun, not to be taken seriously at all.

Samhita Mukhopadhyay is one of the writers at feministing.com, one of my favorite blogs. More so than the other writers there, she posts deep critical analyses on race relations. She posted her (awesome) opinion about the SWPL blog, and just as expected, most of her (mostly white) readers had negative things to say about it.

The following is what happens when I react to a white-dominated race-related comment thread at 5 AM, and is the reason I'm writing this post right now. In other words, the following is my response to angry white peoples' response to Samhita Mukhopadhyay's response to some guy's response to white culture, at 5 AM.

This is what I said:

“the value that i see in that blog is to point out to white people that they have a culture. it is a HUGE problem in this country that most white people see their culture as the default culture, and therefore don’t think of it as a culture, but they see other non-white cultures as cultures because they are “ethnic.” this is the same way that whiteness works in general. white people don’t like hearing told that they are white. they see themselves as the default, the norm, as non-racial, as just “regular.” the value of this blog is to point out to people that just like black people, just like mexican people, they are subject to cultural sillyness that they have never questioned, that they see as the norm, as the default. this blog forces people within that privileged society that there are people outside of it who are able to analyze it, who are able to see that their culture is in fact a culture, it is not just the way people are born, and it is not somehow better than others. it is subject to analysis just like the “ethinic” cultures that privileged whites like to analyze. (a thought: documented cultural analysis probably exists mostly in the academic arena, dominated by privileged whites.)

putting big shiny rims and too many speakers on a cadillac is just as stupid as buying a 5,000 bike that you are only going to use for fun, not for transportation.it is a culturally influenced decision, it is a silly societal habit that people have to impress others, to impress themselves, to feel validated. too many white people think that they don’t do this....”why do poor black people spend their money on such useless shit?” without realizing that remodeling your kitchen is just as useless. this blog forces white people to see themselves externally, to show them that not everybody is like them and not everybody should be like them, to show them that they are, indeed, subject to culture and that they do fall for the same sillyness that others do.

and if you think that this blog is racist, you have no idea what racism in the US means. the fact that i’m brown ruins my life EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY, i am not sorry that you felt a little embarrassed by a joke article on a joke website.

also, to those who are saying that this website is generalizing and that not all white people are like that, you are missing the point of the blog. the point of the blog is not to talk about all white people.

i concede that the following may be a bit cynical, but im saying it anyways: it is very likely that the amount of racial “generalizing” that white people subconsciously do on an everyday basis overwhelmingly trumps any amount of generalizing you might think that blog does.

www.soda.can.com”


Links:

Feministing.com, a radical feminist blog, but not-so-radical in their politics in general: http://www.feministing.com

Stuff White People Like, a comedy blog poking fun at white culture: http://www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

and here is a "complete list" (so far) of things that white people like: http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/full-list-of-stuff-white-people-like/

Samhita's post about it, which includes the replies that pissed me off, as well as my own comment (which you just read): http://feministing.com/archives/008986.html




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[info]wanderingdaze
2008-04-12 04:35 pm UTC (link)
Hi there; I followed the link from your comments to your blog. I absolutely agree with you. (My comments are under the name tacky-thing). I basically said that being kind of half-way between immigrant culture and the dominant white culture I can relate to the site's sense of being inside and outside at the same time. And that this type of satire is useful because it deconstructs our supposedly neutral, beige hegemony. :-)

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[info]viktorfrankl
2008-04-12 05:07 pm UTC (link)
awesome!

i too find myself in a position where i can see the good things and bad things about each culture, externally and internally....but not only that, it has allowed me to be able to step back and look at ANY culture from a slightly more objective stance.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-04-12 04:40 pm UTC (link)
I don't think there is anything inherently silly about big shiny rims, too many speakers, or $5000 bikes. This gets at a relationship to work and wealth that is the default position in our society that is also problematic.

What is the problem with people wanting/having nice stuff?

Is the revolution about putting everyone in gray sack cloth or unleashing inherent creativity?

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[info]viktorfrankl
2008-04-12 05:35 pm UTC (link)
four parts to my response (notice I’ve had a little bit of sleep since then):

-part of my point was to point out that the combination of many whites living in a bubble and their being the dominant culture makes it much easier for whites to see sillyness in other people’s cultures than it is to see it in their own. Regardless of whether you agree with whether certain things are silly or not, my point still stands, because THEY think it is silly, while not seeing that equivalent things are silly about their own culture. I know that you probably realize this, but I just thought I should clarify (by the way, to other readers, i say that because im fairly certain this is my friend ben)

-but its true that MY judgment about those things being silly did come out. i think those things are silly for the same reason i think expensive fashion is silly. you could be spending money on more useful/important things, its materialistic, its a fad, it is not based on creativity, but rather, on trying to achieve similarity to an aesthetic or quality or lifestyle that someone else already thought up, the person’s reasons for doing them rarely hold up (unless youre a pro, you can do the same things with a 600 dollar bike), oftentimes with these things there is peer pressure involved, and a lot of times the reason for buying the shit is to impress others, which distracts from meaningful ways of impressing people (being a good person), its so overdone that it becomes absurd, the people buying are likely to get bored of it eventually because they realize all the things i just said, and so on and so on.

can you clarify your statement about work and wealth?

-i think there is a problem with people wanting/having nice stuff. having nice stuff is a privilege that only exists because faceless, nameless people are enslaved to produce those things. when we indulge in nice stuff we are legitimizing this as a norm, treating it as if we have a right to it (instead of a privilege). we do not have a right to uselessly expensive shit, because we don’t have a right to EXPECT the system of slavery that creates them, and if the world was fair, we would not have such easy access to them (or maybe any access at all). This does not mean that its wrong to WANT nice stuff, and to consciously indulge if it helps you in a meaningful way (economically, emotionally, mentally, physically....), but it is problematic if people (through no fault of their own) see it as a norm or as a right and have not been exposed to the horrors behind it. it is also problematic if people are conscious of whats going on and continue to indulge for reasons of lazyness or lack of conviction.

besides that, they are distractions, and that they are is no accident.

-unleashing inherent creativity does not hinge on how nice our stuff is. you should pretty much know that.....also, since when does opposition to industrial capitalism mean dull colors?

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(Anonymous)
2008-04-14 04:22 pm UTC (link)
yep it's me, Ben, I'm late for work and have to be quick and therefore may not proof read

first point- really? or was it a jerking of the knee at 5AM? white people acting like dicks from a position of privilege is also the norm. A chronic problem with what I'll call narrow feminism (the kind that, say, reads MS and doesn't actually do anything with it) has been the unexamined white privilege. If you are interested in changing someones outlook I think it's important to make friends first (a reason why the internet sucks ass for actual human communication). If you want to be snarky and exacerbate known conflicts, good job!--- wow, this reads meaner than I intend (hug)

second point- who gets to decide what is silly? most people (even white americans) rent their body or mind to someone else for at least half of there waking hours (just got a call from the boss who is waiting for me on the job and I'm still in my pajamas) just to get food and shelter ("but what about the SUV and PS3 and"...I'm getting there) if someone decides to take a portion of their money to get some obscene display of goofyness, I'm not going to attack them for it (I might question, on an interpersonal/individual level) but the root of that problem is the set-up, is the system, is capitalism, not the person who has two choices: participate or die. Until the relationship between work and wealth changes (people have a for sure base line survival guaranteed) expecting people to magically transform their world view because of some obvious spiritual truth is kind of unrealistic.

3- disappointing, how exactly are people supposed to differentiate between what is a fulfilling purchase and what isn't, should they take it to a block committee? or should they trust themselves, so then the act of buying it is the moment that decision is made? or has capitalism created a general dumbening that needs to be resisted by pointing out that people are stupid?. I think there is a problem with how nice is defined. Also if people didn't get fresher nicer things would a "free box ecology of stuff" be able to exist?

4- what I think and "know" is irrelevent, how I'm able to transmit those ideas into the rest of the world is what matters. and the current culture makes that very difficult. you know exactly how ignorable the pants under a skirt hippie crowd is, or the bagel eating freight hopping mohawked crowd is, or the

it's harsher than I intended, but I'm late for the job and am choosing to post it now, rather than risk waiting to edit and maybe not getting back around to it. Also there are several punches that i've pulled that we should talk about at next face time.

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[info]viktorfrankl
2008-04-14 08:21 pm UTC (link)
interesting marxist/buddhist dichotomy...

1 - ”really?”

yes

“If you are interested in changing someones outlook I think it's important to make friends first”

all of viktor frankl’s friends are white.

“If you want to be snarky and exacerbate known conflicts, good job!”

i dont understand what youre saying, assuming that you understand the point of that blog, and the point of my linking to it. being snarky/funny is probably the safest way of dropping critical cultural analysis

2 - my criticism was directed at privileged hypocritical whites. your initial response made no mention of that and instead was just a response to the economic argument (which was a side note to my main point). you and me may have different ideas of what’s silly (there are things that you would make fun of me for buying), but nonetheless, hipster liberal whites (the targets of the comedy blog) who would make fun of other people’s seemingly silly purchases are hypocrites, and not just regular hypocrites, but specifically white privileged hypocrites. it seems to me that the marxist discussion we are having is beside the point.....i could have worded my argument in terms of some white people who would criticize some black people’s fashion choices while not realizing that their own fashion choices are just as arbitrary....same argument. i just chose the economic argument because that is one that is made on that blog. i could have made the argument about dietary choices. or anything, to point out the hypocrisy. in my response to you i was only brining up the economic stuff because you brought it up.

“expecting people to magically transform their world view because of some obvious spiritual truth is kind of unrealistic.”

im willing to try

3 - it seems like you are disagreeing with me when i say that it is unhealthy/bad for one’s happiness to rely on industrial capitalism. of course i understand the need for nice stuff, but (uh oh, epic confession time) i am one of those new age spiritual meditators that you seem to despise more than anything.

“if people didn't get fresher nicer things would a "free box ecology of stuff" be able to exist?”

the free box ecology is only necessary because capitalism exists, capitalism exists because we are too busy buying nice stuff to care about overthrowing it.

i really appreciate you reminding me that there are no hard feelings, because if you hadnt done that, i might have thought there were. im not quite accustomed to your FeelingsDon’tMatter style yet, but im getting there.

=P

<3

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]argo_vela
2008-04-23 11:05 pm UTC (link)
This isn't related to your post, but have you seen this?

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/04/20/18494078.php

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i didn't forget!
[info]caitlinchilds.com
2008-05-15 05:26 am UTC (link)
I finally posted about this! http://www.caitlinchilds.com/stuff-white-people-like/

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